Franciscan Media’s “Off the Page” podcast brings listeners insightful conversations with authors, artists, and educators who explore faith, spirituality, and the human experience through a Franciscan lens. Each episode delves into thought-provoking topics, drawing inspiration from the values of St. Francis and St. Clare of Assisi, to inspire a deeper connection with God and the world.
Featuring a diverse range of guests, the podcast offers a blend of storytelling, reflection, and practical wisdom for living a life of harmony, joy, and simplicity.
In the year 1202, a young Giovanni Bernardone, who we would come to know as St. Francis of Assisi, was captured in a conflict between Assisi and Perugia and held as a prisoner of war for about a year. This horrific experience as a prisoner of war changed Francis, and he likely ventured through life suffering from what we would now call PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). And yet, Francis undoubtedly became a “wounded healer” for others and the world. So, what about us? What brokenness do we carry? What traumas do our bodies hold? How can we move toward wholeness and healing and ultimately use our stories to become wounded healers for others? This episode’s guest is Richard B. Patterson, PhD, a clinical psychologist and trauma therapist practicing in El Paso, Texas. Two of the primary groups he has worked with in his career as a therapist are combat veterans and victims of clergy abuse. He is a regular contributor to St. Anthony Messenger and has a new piece in the July/August issue titled, “Turn to the Beatitudes.”
Disclaimer: This episode discusses sensitive topics, including historical and modern experiences of trauma, war, and sexual abuse, which may be triggering. If listening brings up difficult emotions, please reach out to a trusted therapist or contact a support resource like the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) at 1-800-950-6264. We encourage prioritizing your well-being.
Show Notes
– Need resources to work through trauma? Visit ptsd.va.gov, a site that, as Patterson mentions, is not only for combat veterans but is helpful for anyone suffering from PTSD.
– Check out Patterson’s work in St. Anthony Messenger: “Turn to the Beatitudes” (July/August 2025) “A New Understanding of the Prayer of Saint Francis” (October 2025), “Wounded Healers” (April 2022), or “Broken Vessels” (March 2022). View more of his work with Franciscan Media here.
– Explore Patterson’s blog Psyche and Spirit and his books. Read his blog “The Catholic Church and Clergy Abuse: Impact on Faith.”
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The Trinity is a central component of Christian theology, and certainly Franciscanism as well, as seen in the mystical theology of St. Bonaventure and other Franciscan theologians. But there’s a problem: The Trinity often feels un-relatable, esoteric, or just downright goofy and strange. Why does the Trinity matter? Is it mere theological jargon for academics and religious? Does Trinitarian theology actually have a practical impact on our lives and walks of faith? This episode’s guest, William Paul Young, is an author who has used story to help make the mystery and beauty of the Trinity accessible to millions around the world. Paul is the author of the novel The Shack, a New York Times bestseller that has sold 25 million copies worldwide and was turned into a movie in 2017 starring Octavia Spencer, Sam Worthington, and Tim McGraw. He is also the author of Eve, Cross Roads, and Lies We Believe About God. He has a wonderful new podcast called “The Paul Young Podcast,” which features short 10-20 minute spiritual reflections 2-3 times a week. In this episode, Paul discusses our participation within the Trinity in our day-to-day lives, our living into our own inherent union with Christ, and how to distance ourselves from the lie that we are separate from God.
Show Notes
– Consider meditating upon these Scripture passages about union with Christ: John 17, John 14:15-21, John 15:1-17, Galatians 2:20, and Colossians 1:15-20.
– Read about the Orthodox teaching of divinization, or theosis, and its prevalence in the Early Church. As Pope John Paul II wrote in Orientale Lumen (The Light of the East), the theology of divinization and union is one of the great contributions of the Eastern Fathers but has been largely ignored in the West.
– In the West, the incarnation is often explained as a response to humanity being separate from God. As Father John Quigley, OFM, explains, Blessed John Duns Scotus and Franciscans hold a different theological explanation. In this video, Richard Rohr explains the “cosmic optimism” prevalent in Franciscan theology and how this cultivates a connection to the sacred that is in every one and every thing.
– Enjoy watching Wm. Paul Young’s appearance on Oprah’s Super Soul Sunday or his three-part lecture on the “Nature of God” (view Part I, Part II, and Part III here).
– Listen to The Paul Young Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Order The Shack, Cross Roads, Eve, or Lies We Believe About God.
– Stream The Shack on Netflix until July 31.
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Chloé Simone Valdary is a writer and entrepreneur whose company, Theory of Enchantment, teaches social and emotional learning, as well as diversity and inclusion in companies and government agencies. She has written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, and The Wall Street Journal, and she has appeared on podcasts and talkshows across the political spectrum: from “Real Time with Bill Maher” to “Honestly with Bari Weiss” to “The Jordan Peterson Podcast” to “The Megyn Kelly Show.” Her three principles from the Theory of Enchantment are the focus of this episode.
Show Notes
– Check out Chloé Valdary’s Substack and her organization Theory of Enchantment.
– Watch Chloé’s TEDTalk, “How love can help repair social inequality.”
– Learn about St. Francis of Assisi and Sultan Malik al-Kamil in this two-part series on our YouTube channel: Part I and Part II.
– Read this cover story in St. Anthony Messenger, “Building Peace in a Nation Divided.”
– Enjoy listening to the “The Cave” by Mumford & Sons. The lines “So come out of your cave walking on your hands / And see the world hanging upside down / You can understand dependence / When you know the maker’s hand” appear to be inspired by G.K. Chesterton’s biography on St. Francis of Assisi. As Chesterton wrote, “He [Francis] looked at the world as differently from other men as if he had come out of that dark hole walking on his hands.”
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Angela Alaimo O’Donnell, PhD, teaches English, Creative Writing, and courses in American Catholic Studies at Fordham University in New York City. She also serves as Associate Director of Fordham’s Curran Center for American Catholic Studies. O’Donnell was awarded the New York Encounter Poetry Prize. She has been nominated for Pushcart and Best of the Web Prizes, and was a finalist for the Paraclete Poetry Prize, the Foley Poetry Prize and the Mulberry Poet’s Award. O’Donnell also writes essays on and reviews of contemporary poetry and literature. She recently published her 11th poetry book Dear Dante (Paraclete Press) and writes regularly for America Magazine.
Show Notes
– Check out Dr. Angela Alaimo O’Donnell’s work here. Follow her on Twitter or Instagram.
– Read her recent pieces in America Magazine.
– Order her two latest poetry books from Paraclete Press, Dear Dante and Holy Land.
– Learn more about the Curran Center for American Catholic Studies.
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Maureen O’Brien’s award-winning short stories and poems have been published widely in magazines and anthologies. She lives in Connecticut, where she taught creative writing to teenagers for 25 years. She holds an MA in creative writing and a BA in philosophy and religion. She is the author of What Was Lost: Seeking Refuge in the Psalms and Gather the Fragments: My Year of Finding God’s Love.
Show Notes
– Read Maureen’s latest cover story, “St. Francis and the Gift of Love,” in St. Anthony Messenger.
– Check out more Franciscan Media writings from Maureen here.
– Order What Was Lost: Seeking Refuge in the Psalms and Gather the Fragments: My Year of Finding God’s Love on Amazon.
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On May 8, 2025, Robert Francis Prevost was elected Bishop of Rome and took the name Pope Leo XIV. In this special episode, Father Jim Sabak, OFM, a Franciscan friar of the Province of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and Deacon Matthew Halbach, president of Franciscan Media and Director of Deacon Formation for the Diocese of Des Moines, discuss Pope Leo and the significance of this historic moment. The interview took place on Wednesday, May 14, six days after Pope Leo XIV’s election was announced.
Show Notes
– Read: Quietly, without flashiness, Pope Leo strives toward unity
– Subscribe to Father Jim Sabak’s weekly podcast with Franciscan Media, “Inbreaking of the Word,” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
– Read Deacon Matthew Halbach’s book The New Directory for Catechesis.
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On April 21, 2025, Easter Monday, people around the world awoke to the news that Pope Francis had passed away at the age of 88. This episode is a compilation of both published and unpublished interviews where guests talk about the life, legacy, and papacy of Pope Francis. Included here is Fr. Murray Bodo, OFM, talking about Pope Francis’ heart for the poor; Dr. Daniel P. Horan discussing how God’s love and mercy was a cornerstone to Pope Francis’ pontificate; Sr. Margaret Carney, OSF, talking about Pope Francis’ unique ability to, like St. Francis of Assisi, speak the language of the people and make the Catholic faith accessible; Br. Keith Warner, OFM, dissecting the Franciscan undertones in Pope Francis’ encyclicals; and the poet Dr. Angela Alaimo O’Donnell discussing the pope’s love for art and literature.
Show Notes
– Learn more about Pope Francis’ life and legacy.
– Explore Franciscan Media’s archive of articles about Pope Francis.
– Read Pope Francis’ Fratelli tutti (On Fraternity and Social Friendship) and Laudato si’ (On Care for Our Common Home).
– Order the Expanded Edition of Care for Creation: A Franciscan Spirituality of the Earth, which has new front and back matter woven with wisdom from Laudato si’. Use the code Spring60 at checkout to receive 60% off.
– Read Dr. Angela Alaimo O’Donnell’s recent tribute in America, “Pope Francis loved literature and film—and artists loved him for it,” or her 2015 piece “Where Were You?”
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Darleen Pryds, PhD, is the academic director of the Master of Theological Studies-Franciscan Theology online degree at the Franciscan School of Theology (FST) in San Diego, California. She has taught at FST since 2001 and has a special interest in lay Franciscan spirituality and leadership. She is a historian, scholar, and author of Women of the Streets, Enduring Presence, and The King Embodies the Word.
Show Notes
– Read Darleen Pryds’ April 2025 St. Anthony Messenger cover story, “Living ‘The Canticle of the Creatures.'”
– Enjoy more writings by Darleen Pryds.
– View the photograph discussed in the episode.
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Sister Rosemary Stets, OSF, is a Bernardine Franciscan Sister and author of the book Franciscan Field Guide: People, Places, Practices, and Prayers. She has served on the congregational leadership team since 2011. Previously, Sister Rosemary served as Vice-President for Mission at Alvernia University in Reading, PA, and earlier was a member of the faculty in the Department of English and Communications.
Reflections in this episode are provided by Darleen Pryds, PhD, Franciscan Media’s acquisitions editor. She is also a scholar and historian on lay Franciscans and author of Women of the Streets: Early Franciscan Women and their Mendicant Vocation.
Show notes:
– Read this blog post from Sr. Rosemary Stets, titled “Francis and Clare: Where the Tradition Begins”.
– Order Sister Rosemary’s book in print or e-book.
– Enjoy more writings by Sister Rosemary.
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Margaret Carney, OSF, PhD, on Saint Clare’s Leadership in a Time of Division
Sister Margaret Carney, OSF, is a member of the Sisters of St. Francis of the Neumann Communities. Her education in theology and Franciscan studies took place at Duquesne University, the Franciscan Institute of St. Bonaventure University, and she was the first woman to graduate from the Franciscan University of Rome at the doctoral level. She was the president of St. Bonaventure University from 2004-2016. Her biography on Saint Clare of Assisi, Light of Assisi, is available in the Franciscan Media store, Amazon, or wherever books are sold.
Show notes:
– Read this St. Anthony Messenger article from Carney on St. Clare’s life and legacy.
– Order Carney’s biography on St. Clare, available in print, e-book, or audiobook.
– Enjoy our St. Clare of Assisi playlist on YouTube.
– Explore our hub of content on St. Clare of Assisi.
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Elizabeth Bookser-Barkley, PhD, on the Legacies of Helen Prejean and Religious Sisters
Elizabeth Bookser-Barkley, PhD, known by her loved ones and students as “Buffy,” is an English professor and chair of the Department of Liberal Arts at Mount St. Joseph University in Cincinnati, Ohio. She has her PhD in English and is also the author of four books and numerous articles for St. Anthony Messenger magazine. Barkley has taught the St. Anthony Messenger’s editorial director, Chris Heffron, and its executive editor, Susan Hines-Brigger. Barkley joins Off the Page to discuss her January 2025 cover story, “Dead Man Walking at 30,” and March 2025 feature, “The Nuns Are OK.”
Show notes:
– Read Bookser-Barkley’s January 2025 cover story, “Dead Man Walking at 30.”
– Read Bookser-Barkley’s March 2025 feature story, “The Nuns are OK.”
– What does the Catholic Church teach on capital punishment? See the new revision of 2267 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
– Explore Bookser-Barkley’s Franciscan Media page to read more articles from this author.
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Daniel P. Horan, PhD, on Listening to God in Times of Transition
Dr. Daniel P. Horan is a Professor of Philosophy, Religious Studies, and Theology and Director of the Center for the Study of Spirituality at Saint Mary’s College in Notre Dame, Indiana. He is also Affiliated Professor of Spirituality at the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas. A columnist for the National Catholic Reporter, he is the author or editor of more than fourteen books. Three of those books were published by Franciscan Media: God is Not Fair and Other Reasons for Gratitude, Dating God, and The Last Words of Jesus.
Show notes:
– Order God Is Not Fair and Other Reasons for Gratitude, Dating God, or The Last Words of Jesus.
– Check out Horan’s weekly column in the National Catholic Reporter or his podcast “The Francis Effect.”
– Follow Horan on social media.
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Thomas Moore, PhD, on How to Have a Mystical Christmas
Thomas Moore is the author of the #1 New York Times bestseller Care of the Soul. He has written thirty other books about bringing soul to personal life and culture, including The Soul of Christmas, which was published in 2016 by Franciscan Media. In his youth Thomas was a Catholic monk and studied music composition. He has a Ph.D. in Religious Studies from Syracuse University and was a university professor for a number of years. He is also a psychotherapist influenced mainly by Carl Jung and James Hillman. In his work he brings together spirituality, mythology, depth psychology and the arts, emphasizing the importance of images and imagination.
Show notes:
– Order Moore’s The Soul of Christmas.
– Explore our Advent playlist on YouTube.
– Moore on how to navigate loneliness, sadness, and stress during the holidays.
– Read this excerpt from Moore’s book The Soul of Christmas.
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Keith Douglass Warner, OFM, PhD, on Caring for Creation and Eco-Spirituality
Keith Douglass Warner, OFM, PhD, is associate professor of ethics and spirituality at the Franciscan School of Theology in San Diego. He is a practical social ethicist in the Franciscan tradition, and teaches eco-spirituality, social entrepreneurship, and moral theology. In 2007, he helped author the award-winning Care for Creation: A Franciscan Spirituality of the Earth with Ilia Delio, OSF, and Pamela Wood. The expanded edition of Care for Creation includes extensive front and back matter which delve into Pope Francis’ 2015 encyclical “Laudato Si’: On Care for our Common Home.”
Show notes:
– Order the expanded edition of Care for Creation: A Franciscan Spirituality of the Earth.
– Enjoy this free download of worksheets from the expanded edition of Care for Creation that will help guide you and your group through the transformative themes of Laudato Si’, inspiring an ecological awakening in your community.
– Read Pope Francis’ 2015 encyclical “Laudato Si’: On Care for our Common Home.”
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Susan Saint Sing, OFS, PhD, on Embracing God in Aloneness
Susan Saint Sing, OFS, PhD, is the author of God’s Love Song with Fr. Murray Bodo and Francis and the San Damiano Cross: Meditations on Spiritual Transformation. She received her doctorate in sport history and kinesiology from Penn State University, and she is a Secular Franciscan. She has been a main speaker at national conferences on St. Clare and on spirituality, and she resides in Stuart, Florida.
Show notes:
– Order Saint-Sing’s books God’s Love Song or Francis and the San Damiano Cross.
– What’s at the intersection of sport and spirituality? Read Saint-Sing’s recent blog for Franciscan Spirit.
– Learn about Saint-Sing’s journey and the healing she found in Assisi.
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Garrett Galvin, OFM, PhD, on Experiencing Renewal in a Franciscan Key
Garrett Galvin, OFM, PhD, graduated from the University of California, Irvine, and joined the Franciscan Friars in 1992. He began teaching full-time at the Franciscan School of Theology in 2009. He published his first book, Egypt as a Place of Refuge in 2011. David’s Successors: Kingship in the Old Testament was published in 2016.
Show Notes:
– Explore Fr. Garrett’s lectures, one of which is the title of this episode, available on the Franciscan School of Theology’s YouTube channel.
– Learn more about the Franciscan School of Theology.
– Why is the study of theology important? Read this piece in our Study & Theology series on Franciscan Spirit.
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Richard Rohr, OFM, on Being Eager to Love
Richard Rohr, OFM, is a globally recognized ecumenical teacher whose work is grounded in Christian mysticism, practices of contemplation and self-emptying, and compassion for the marginalized. He is a Franciscan priest and founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque. Fr. Richard is the author of many books, including the bestsellers Just This, What Do We Do with Evil?, The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope for, and Believe, and The Wisdom Pattern: Order, Disorder, Reorder. The Center publishes Richard’s Daily Meditations, free reflections emailed to hundreds of thousands around the world.
Show Notes:
– Order the anniversary edition of Eager to Love: The Alternative Way of Francis of Assisi and its accompanying Companion Guide.
– Explore our Richard Rohr Collection in Franciscan Media’s online store.
– Check out Season 3 of the Everything Belongs Podcast which delves into a new chapter from Eager to Love each episode.
– Learn more about the Center for Action and Contemplation.
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Mark Shea on the Dangers of Christian Nationalism
Mark Shea is an author, blogger, and longtime contributor to the St. Anthony Messenger. He often takes on challenging topics that face Catholics today. His September 2024 cover story, “The Dangers of Christian Nationalism,” in the St. Anthony Messenger explores the rise of nationalistic ideology in America and what the Christian response should be. Shea lives in Washington State with his wife, Janet, their sons, and grandkids. His book The Church’s Best-Kept Secret: A Primer on Catholic Social Teaching was published in September 2020 by New City Press.
Show notes:
– Read Shea’s September 2024 cover story in the St. Anthony Messenger, “The Dangers of Christian Nationalism.”
– Explore more articles written by Shea for Franciscan Media.
– What is Christian nationalism? Listen to Shea’s explanation.
– Learn more about Shea by visiting MarkPShea.com.
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Ilia Delio, OSF, PhD, on the Humility of God and Awakening to Divine Oneness
Ilia Delio, OSF, PhD, is a Franciscan Sister of Washington, D.C.,and an American theologian specializing in the area of science and religion. Her work often bridges evolution, physics, and neuroscience with Franciscan theology. She currently holds the Josephine C. Connelly Endowed Chair in Theology at Villanova University and also holds two honorary doctorates, one from St. Francis University in 2015, and one from Sacred Heart University in 2020. She is the founder of the Center for Christogenesis, which seeks to deepen the integration of science and religion by understanding the contribution of each discipline to the whole field of knowing and loving. This conversation revolves around themes from two books of hers that were recently re-published by Franciscan Media: Humility of God: A Franciscan Perspective and Franciscan Prayer: Awakening to Oneness with God.
Show notes:
– Order Delio’s books The Humility of God and Franciscan Prayer.
– Learn more about the Center for Christogenesis.
– Read this Minute Meditation from Franciscan Prayer.
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Murray Bodo, OFM, on the Intersection of Prayer and Creativity
In part two of his interview, Murray Bodo, OFM, talks about how our God-given creative drive can power a healthy prayer life.
Show notes:
– Was St. Francis of Assisi a poet? Father Murray Bodo explains.
– Learn more about Father Murray’s work here.
– Stay tuned for Father Murray’s upcoming poetry book Brother Wind and Air: A Lifetime in Verse.
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Murray Bodo, OFM, on His Approach to Prayer as a Poet
Murray Bodo, OFM, is a Franciscan priest and an award-winning author of numerous books including his bestselling Francis: The Journey and the Dream, Nourishing Love: A Franciscan Celebration of Mary, and God’s Love Song: The Vision of Francis and Clare, which he co-authored with Susan Saint Sing. He resides in the inner city Over-the-Rhine neighborhood of Cincinnati, Ohio, where he continues to write and minister.
Show notes:
– Check out the anniversary edition of Song of the Sparrow.
– What do we do when prayer feels empty? Bodo uses a poem in Song of the Sparrow as a guide for listeners.
– What is contemplation? Bodo explains.
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Bruce Epperly, PhD, on Why St. Bonaventure Is a Theologian for Our Time
Rev. Dr. Bruce G. Epperly served as a congregational pastor, university chaplain, professor, and seminary administrator for over forty years. He is the author of more than seventy books including Walking with Francis of Assisi, Simplicity, Spirituality, Service, and his new book Head, Heart, and Hands: An Introduction to Saint Bonaventure.
Show notes:
– Read more of Epperly’s articles with Franciscan Media.
– What is downward mobility? Epperly explains.
– Epperly explains Bonaventure’s notion of “fountain fullness” and its importance today.
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